Today on the Casey Hoff radio show, the Madison-based host told me about a shirt he'd seen recently. On not one but three young women, the message splayed across their chest was: "I'M DRUNK, SO THE ANSWER IS YES." (I confirmed this on a few blogs, including this one from a self-described "Left"-leaning Madison-based blogger.)
Now that we know the shirts actually exist, let's discuss. This is really a bit beyond, "Young lady, what kind of message does that send?"
Wouldn't you say? For there is the message, in very plain black-and-white lettering: "I'M DRUNK, SO THE ANSWER IS YES."
I know, I do realize that these women are choosing to wear these shirts, and that it's all very ironic and sophisticated. Trust me, I criticize their notion of empowerment with only the greatest trepidation.
And surely we must raise boys to respect women regardless of what the women wear. At the same time, we're kidding ourselves if we think that this is easy when the girls do not respect themselves. No, this is not "blaming the victim"--I think it's defending the victim.
What do you think?
I think anyone who wears this shirt is very confused.
Posted by: A.L. | July 12, 2007 at 04:20 PM
Wendy,
I've been privy to men's t-shirts like this but have never seen this one on women...
Okay, in the vacuum of space, at first it's funny. But at second and third thought it's disturbing (culturally)! Maybe it's meant to be an "ice breaker" or good way to a get a conversation with a guy started. But not the kind of guy you'd want to be around! Can't help it, but it screams "date rape" -- there's a real link between women being intoxicated and being taken advantage of.
It ALSO degrades men...reduces them to thoughtless sex bandits who will just take what they can get...
I remember advice from a friend that if you're looking for the man of your dreams, it's best to focus on being the best woman you can be = develop your good qualities. Being drunk and easy are not those things, right?
Posted by: Erin P | July 12, 2007 at 04:31 PM
This reminds me of a little while ago I was living in a touristy type town where there was a very high rate of STDs, I remember asking the local nurse about it and her saying that most of the females involved found it very difficult to remember when, where and who with regards to the actual intercourse. This to me is the ultimate in disappointment not liberation, the great fulfilling sex that you can't remember because of alcohol, the infectious disease, the wondering who.... no wonder it is linked to depression... where is the uninhibited pleasure.... is that freedom ? It's very sad to me ...
Posted by: Priya | July 12, 2007 at 05:42 PM
I think it's a terribly degrading and undignified thing to wear, no matter the spirit it is worn in, or what 'ironic' twist some of its wearers may intend. I'm disturbed by the lack of self-respect shown by people who would wear such a thing, but, as always, it's their life and their choice. I'm just glad it's not me.
Posted by: peggynature | July 13, 2007 at 12:26 PM
I'm the self-described left leaning blogger referenced above who saw the shirts on a group of girls at the Mifflin Street Block Party. At least a few of the girls clearly were drunk at the time, and all were drinking. Besides being totally not empowering and not cute, the shirts send a dangerous message to any man wishing to take advantage of (or worse) these young women.
On a related note, if you're looking for an antidote to this message, two of my cousins have started a company called Smart Girl Tees to counter the messages worn on the t-shirts of their young daughters' friends and classmates. The website is www.smartgirlteesinc.com.
Posted by: Lisa Subeck | July 15, 2007 at 12:06 PM
I think it's a sad and disturbing message. I live in a wonderful college town where, unfortunately, it isn't all that uncommon for girls to wake up and find that their drunken revels of the night before ended in unconscious or otherwise coerced sex. Campus counselors have been horrified to discover that large numbers of guys actually don't consider it wrong to take advantage of an incapacitated girl. They actually think that it's an OK thing to do--she's right there, what's the problem?
Somehow I don't think that this t-shirt is going to help that attitude any. It may be theoretically ironic and all, but the reality behind it is too sad for joking about.
Posted by: dangermom | July 15, 2007 at 09:00 PM
A t-shirt I saw while staying at a hotel in the Dallas-Fort Worth Airport complex:
"Everything is Bigger is Texas"
...printed across the bust line, of course.
One can only fathom if men were to adopt the same motto and where they would print it.
Posted by: Anna | July 17, 2007 at 08:51 AM
Ack.
Let's make fun of the idea that being drunk means someone is in an impaired state and can't conssent that way. Ew.
And I was all jazzed about the smart girl T-shirts until I realized that despite "my IQ is more important than my weight," they don't carry my size.
Posted by: Indigo | July 17, 2007 at 09:18 AM
"Campus counselors have been horrified to discover that large numbers of guys actually don't consider it wrong to take advantage of an incapacitated girl. They actually think that it's an OK thing to do--she's right there, what's the problem?"
-- dangermom
Especially when "She was asking for it -- just look at her T-shirt!"
Consent already given, and "Consensual Sex" justfies anything and everything.
Posted by: Ken | July 17, 2007 at 12:34 PM
I'm not quite sure, in this age of gender 'equality" why boys need to be raised to "respect women". How about raising children to respect people regardless of gender. Yes, that even means women respecting men, something I see very little of today. Why are women entiltled to chivalry from men? This whole blog seems to be about what women and girls are entitled to. Too many women want to throw off tradition when it comes to gender roles they perceive as stifling to women but are more than happy to preserve traditional concepts, such as chivalry, which place women on a pedestal.
Posted by: number65 | July 17, 2007 at 05:56 PM
I thought the point of the blog was that women need to respect themselves AND men. The shirt doesn't do either.
Posted by: A.L. | July 17, 2007 at 09:54 PM
Lisa, thanks for telling us about those shirts. Number65, you ask a good question. I wish I could get behind "gender-neutral respect" but I can't for a few reasons. First, women have a special sexual vulnerability and men can really, physically, overpower them; I think we need to teach boys that part of being a man is not taking advantage of that. Second, I've noticed that gender neutral respect tends to quickly devolve into nobody respecting anyone: Men not giving up their seats for pregnant women on the bus because "we're all equal," and women speaking crudely about men because "we're all equal." It's rather like communism's equality of misery. I do agree with Number65 that respecting men is equally important, however, and that's why I posted my blog earlier today about not ranking men according to their "diamond-buying potential"!
Posted by: wendy | July 17, 2007 at 10:11 PM
Let's not forget what happened at Queen's University (and other places) about 20 years ago when the "No means no" campaign was being launched: at least one fraternity made a large banner reading "No means more beer" (which has been seen in other places as well). Also, as a professor of human sexuality and other (clinical) psychology courses, I am all too aware of the numbers of sexual assaults that occur every day/night, many of which involve alcohol and/or other drugs (although, if you ever do come across such stats, please be aware that they are often misleading due to bad research methodology or poor reading/interpretation of the data in textbooks).
With the way the mind works, people are always looking for ways to rationalize or justify their behaviours. These kinds of shirts truly do help achieve the goal of convincing certain types of men and women that certain types of behaviours are acceptable, expected, the norm, etc.
If it is okay, I will re-post the original blog on my course website, as well as my personal site (www.docamitay.com), to continue the discussion there.
Posted by: Oren Amitay | July 19, 2007 at 02:12 AM
...at least one fraternity made a large banner reading "No means more beer" (which has been seen in other places as well).
-- Oren Amitay
"Candy is dandy
But liquor is quicker."
-- Ogden Nash
Posted by: Ken | July 20, 2007 at 01:59 PM
There seems to be a worrying trend of complete disdain being associated with sexual intercourse in the media today. I personally think Wendy's point "women have a special sexual vulnerability and men can really, physically, overpower them" is the most important there is when it comes to modesty, don't flaunt your complete disregard for yourself and then expect respect. There was a rap in a J Timberlake ( most popular with teenage girls and perhaps gay men) song recently where some guy boasts about how he will sleep with you and then forget what you look like 'cos he's a "stand up guy". In what way is this different to sexual assault ? Because the girls want it ? It seems until girls are able to state differently with confidence there are many ways that a girl "wanting it" can be misunderstood.
Here's a scenario: Maybe she just wanted to talk, or some affection but because you have such an overinflated view of your sexual prowess (as you should being a man) and she had no idea of how to assert her femininity without acting like one of the females on MTV, so now you've ended up having sex and like a man you will forget her and she will feel really ... what was that ...... ? feel really -- well you figure it out !
Posted by: priya | July 20, 2007 at 06:52 PM
Actually I just thought, I remember when I was 19 ( a whole 6 years ago ) I was given by a girl I knew at the time a t-shirt with "porn star" on it and another one which boldly stated "your boyfriend wants me. There was admittedly something dare inducing about these tops for me, a"are you brave enough and "sassy" enough to wear them question that made me indeed wear them a few times. I think teenage years are highly susceptible ones, where we are easily seduced by the invitation to be "with it" or "sexy" etc etc.... I believe that its only with adulthood that we are able to really make informed choices with regards to these things because before that we are really only playing and testing to a large extent. The saddest thing about all of this is the fact that it is very cynical greedy people that design these items.
Posted by: priya | July 20, 2007 at 08:27 PM
PRIYA WROTE: some guy boasts about how he will sleep with you and then forget what you look like 'cos he's a "stand up guy". In what way is this different to sexual assault ? Because the girls wants it ?
MY RESPONSE: Although I understand what you're saying afterwards, Priya, we have to be very careful about the terms we use. CONSENSUAL sex is very different from sexual assault, and if we try to equate them, then the latter term (sexual assault) will lose its power. Yes, in both cases the person may feel very vulnerable, worthless, used, etc., but only in sexual assault should the actual action be considered TRAUMATIC.
Moreover, the person's response to being "used" will usually be far different from the POST-TRAUMATIC STRESS reactions (PTSD) often experienced following a sexual assault (e.g., flashbacks and mentally, emotionally, physiologically re-experiencing the trauma, unable to envision a future for yourself, hypersensitive and hypervigilant to your environment, nightmares, numbness, etc). Again, to try to equate these symptoms with the emotional and psychological distress you might feel after being used (which many people do not, since they RATIONALIZE the experience and PRETEND that they don't care, or that they are "sexually liberated" etc) is to do a huge dis-service to the millions of women who are truly sexually assaulted, versus the many women who CONSENSUALLY ALLOW themselves to be used by someone sexually, for whatever reason.
Posted by: Oren Amitay | July 22, 2007 at 03:54 PM
One more comment on your post, Priya. Again, I understand the point you are making and I hope more people will think your way in many regards. We just have to be careful about our assumptions, premises, over-generalizations, and language, because many people are looking for any excuse not to have to think about such serious matters; if they can find something in a statement that they feel discredits or nullifies the sentiment being expressed, they'll jump all over it. With that in mind:
PRIYA WROTE: Here's a scenario: Maybe she just wanted to talk, or some affection but because you have such an overinflated view of your sexual prowess (as you should being a man) and she had no idea of how to assert her femininity without acting like one of the females on MTV, so now you've ended up having sex and like a man you will forget her and she will feel really ... what was that ...... ? feel really -- well you figure it out !
I RESPONDED: First, some/many men do not have an "overinflated view of their sexual prowess," as they are actually quite anxious and insecure about their abilities. Some men mask it well, others over-compensate. But to say a man "should" act like that is to encourage a stereotype that is often not true. And many insecure men who hear such things will react by trying to mask and over-compensate for their insecurities, as opposed to trying to develop in a more healthy--and perhaps female-friendly--manner.
Second, it is not the male's responsibility to infer that a female really wants this or that. (I'm using male/female, since we could be talking about kids, adolescents, or adults; of course, we could also be talking about same-sex relations or cases in which the female is the one seeking sex and the male is resisting (I can tell you this happens more than you think...not as much as the other way around, but it does), but for simplicity's sake we'll use the standard "male-female" dynamic where HE is the pursuer.) The only responsibility the male/pursuer has is not to exert UNDUE pressure on the other person.
I use the term "undue pressure" because people are not mind-readers and thus any interpersonal exchange can involve at least some pressure or discomfort. Even approaching someone to talk, when that person does not wish to be "bothered," can involve "pressure" and "discomfort."
But would you criticize someone for approaching the other person? I hope not (assuming the circumstances are such that approaching someone is not unacceptable). But if the person clearly states that (s)he does not wish to be bothered/spoken to and the other person persists, then we get into the "UNDUE pressure" situation and his behaviours are unacceptable.
The same thing goes for each "stage" of getting to know someone better. How does one person know the other's own comfort level without asking or tentatively trying to get to each "stage"? Thus, there is nothing inherently wrong with TRYING TENTATIVELY.
So, if a woman wishes only to talk and the man wants more and tries, then it is the WOMAN'S responsibility to indicate what she wants to do or is willing to try. Yes, you're right, Priya. Many girls/women are not able to communicate such things effectively, and this can lead to terrible consequences. But as long as the male/pursuer is not imposing his/her will on the other person, then again the responsibility lies with the female/recipient of the attention.
Of course, none of this should distract us from the fact that too many males DO hold the attitude you describe (as demonstrated in Timbit's song). But the FACT is, if many girls/women didn't ALLOW this to happen, so many males wouldn't believe they can get away with such ugly attitudes.
I've written more on this topic, in response to one of my student's messages on my course website, here:
http://docamitay.com/blog/index.php?s=sheets
Posted by: Oren Amitay | July 22, 2007 at 04:20 PM
To follow up on my theme of RATIONALIZATION, people should never under-estimate the power of this defence mechanism. That is, many people make up excuses for certain behaviours that might seem so silly, but they believe in what they tell themselves. Here is an example from The Star today. I'm not going to get into the debate of whether "beauty pageants" should be banned (although if you've ever seen documentaries on CHILD pageants you would realize how WRONG-HEADED many of the parents of these poor kids are; "Little Miss Sunshine" didn't even come close to the level of pathology displayed by some of these parents!).
Anyway, this link (which I think is active for only 2 weeks: http://www.thestar.com/article/238654) has an article on one such pageant that focuses on THONGS/BUMS, while slightly covering up the breasts in a "rash guard" type of shirt that some people wear when doing water sports. The only thing I want to highlight here is this one statement:
Randall Lome, 21, was runner-up in last year's competition and is planning to compete again. "I would much rather go up in a thong contest where I am fully covered rather than showing my breasts or something," Lome says. "To tell you the truth, it's just a bum, just skin."
Is it just me or does that sentence make absolutely no sense? Most beauty pageants don't have women pose NUDE, so how does she think that showing off 98% of her ass is better than showing off 50-90% of her breasts?
Again, I am not writing about these pageants per se; instead, I am highlighting the kinds of RATIONALIZATIONS people will engage in to justify their actions. Sad...
Posted by: Oren Amitay | July 23, 2007 at 03:19 PM
In response to Oren Amitay,
I agree with your response that sexual assault is not the same as ill considered sexual intercourse but I believe that many do not have the "tools" to discover what they really need. I am not blaming the man in these cases just a lack of clarity when it comes to what it means for each person and a reflection about what we are able to look for. If anything I am blaming medias obsession with sexual imagery and our natural inclination to use these images as models or our own behaviour ( especially young people ) I definitely agree that women/ girls can often be the more aggressive pursuer. I am blaming the expectations here, the very clear expectations and shoulds that these images do represent for many.
What I am criticizing is a reflection in the media ( not complete but over-riding ) of teenage relations as sexually uninhibited and encouraging men to have a false sexual bravado ( I am in no way saying that this IS the case) Teenagers look around them, if more covertly than children for roles of behaviour. I also agree with you that this is just as much a female responsibility but I was just thinking that its sad that many of the girls I have known have had sex for either peer pressure OR to appear a certain way.... I regret likening it to sexual assault BUT I think that it can be an assault on the self or the soul to have sex for the wrong reasons as many do. There is an overriding expectation that we all be sexually expressive and free and if this goes against our instincts we are quite lost.
Posted by: priya | July 23, 2007 at 05:22 PM
Oren Amitay.
I just re-read the comment, I am saying that if you listen to many forms of music ( or read magazines ) aimed at a younger age group it " encourages " men to be a certain way ( as it does women ) so there is a definite"SHOULD"out there all around us. I'm not saying it overtakes the reality but it can colour it and influence our ideas of ourselves and who we should be or create
and lack of self esteem depression if we do not measure up.
I think that in cases where females have sex for the wrong reasons men suffer just as much. We are all human it's just hard to find out what that means by looking around us sometimes.
Posted by: priya | July 23, 2007 at 05:32 PM
I just thought... the only way I can see it is as a "set up" the woman choose it, want it, encourage it and then feel bad. Why ? For so many numerous reasons, because they should, and they "should not" feel bad THAT is wrong... get rid of that frumpy guilt get "hip to the groove"
I just read a womans mag yesterday, that I picked up, and the overwhelming subject matter of the articles and fashion was "sexiness" and then there was one on STDs.... this speaks for itself I think! Sexiness and maybe even disdainful, sniggering at the other person sex is the only thing that is out there in the mainstream - that is very clear. "Sexy" needs to be PUT back for a little while so we can recover our senses !
Posted by: priya | July 23, 2007 at 05:59 PM
Oren Amitay
I can't let this particular topic go ! I remember a few years ago when I was studying there were a couple of boys who used to listen to snoop dog or whatever you call him while we were all working, Art study so it was pretty relaxed.... Anyway I used to feel so disgusted and uncomfortable with having to listen to the violent misogynistic lyrics that I used to bring my own headphones, I believe violence in thought and intent can be just as destructive. I understand and agree 100% that this is not the same as actual sexual assault but for these words thoughts and intentions to be so widespread I feel it is an assault on out hearts and souls. I do NOT in any way think that this is the FAULT of males alone in day to day life but the attitudes permeate our culture and effect everyone. I also agree that women, certain women, are to blame when it comes to females as a whole being misunderstood. I can only think of a very small handful of women that exude class and dignity in the media today. Being "real" is very often associated with being exposed and writhing. This is a fact. The individual writhing and exposing is each and every responsibility but talking Chinese in Russia will not guarantee comprehension although there may be a few Chinese speakers hidden in the shadows - who can tell ?
Also - back to the T-Shirts: the association with alcohol and not caring is a dangerous ( and profitable ! ) one. Alcohol allows you to act out of character, be that writhing, liberated being with someone you don't really like much for NO REASON AT ALL. There is a definite aversion to thinking deeply among young people and mainstream society in general, it's a bit of a laugh - taking things seriously, but not doing so can truly, completely deprive you of being the person you were MEANT to be. Alcohol numbs your senses and your brain but try using them and you'll be much happier.
Posted by: priya | July 23, 2007 at 09:09 PM
Another thing I want to make clear: the REASON I likened the attitude of disdain mixed with sex to sexual assault was because the element of attraction or desire is completely lacking and replaced with a hateful disregard and disinterest for the person as opposed to just sexual attraction. This is, in my eyes, an unhealthy and dangerous attitude to encourage in any human not to mention highly un-arousing...
Posted by: priya | July 23, 2007 at 11:56 PM
Thank you for clarifying things, Priya. As mentioned in my previous message, I agree that having sex for the wrong reasons can have a terrible impact on the person--either immediately or later when the rationalization and/or delusions wear off. And I agree that the media provides lots of STUPID and dangerous messages to people of all ages. I write about these things in various blogs (here's one that sort of deals with this problem, in a more general sense: http://docamitay.com/blog/2007/06/18/self-delusion-does-not-self-esteem/)
But in the end, no matter how bad the media may be, the bottom line is that it is up to the PARENT(S) to take an ACTIVE ROLE in their children's health and development and teach and model for their children how to understand what is real (very little), fake (most), STUPID (lots), harmful (quite a bit), etc. in the media. Moreover, they have to recognize what problems in their own home might contribute to the self-harming behaviours of their children.
For instance, many people like to blame the media for the high rates of eating disorders in mostly women (about 85-90% of sufferers of eating disorders are women). But when you look at the families and personalities of people with eating disorders, there are some consistent patterns: e.g., the parents are overly controlling, over-enmeshed in their kids' lives, not emotionally available, etc. So, I agree with much of what you wrote, Priya; I think we need to focus more on how much power each of us has in ensuring that we (and our children) do not allow ourselves to blindly swallow the garbage that is fed to us regularly by so many types of media, such as the ones you've mentioned.
Finally, as for alcohol, here is something I wrote about people who use alcohol as an excuse for their actions: http://docamitay.com/blog/index.php?s=mirror
Basically, alcohol does not make you do anything against your nature; it only allows you to strip away the social niceties with which you've been conditioned to mask your true desires/feelings/drives.
Posted by: Oren Amitay | July 24, 2007 at 12:17 AM